Curse

freekedoutfish · Dec 11, 2006, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

"Taking a long time" is a gross understatement. Saying "practically forever" would be far more accurate. Besides, many people don't like having to engage in trade spam migraines, I know I sure don't. Hence farming other stuff in hopes of trade spamming it all away one by one, and praying you don't give yourself an ulcer or brain tumor from all the migraines that having to become a hardcore trade spammer for years will give you - is not a viable solution.

Comparing this suggestion to DoA makes no sense whatsoever. All this suggestion would be doing is adding a way to get Fissure armor based on skill. Those who do not have the time to do it that way would not have to, hence they have no reasonable grounds to complain about it.

Its blatenly unfair on those who have, in the past, actually saved up for and then bought and/or farmed the materials.

The OPers idea of tokens would make it alot easier to achieve and you would see alot more people in FoW armor and it would become devalued.

It just doesnt make sense to turn the way we purchase armor on its head.

Why should the way we get one set of armor be any different to another?

Tokens to buy one set, while every other set is bought using materials and money? or choose how to purchase it?

Their are countless other 15k armors in the game if people dont want to grind or save up for Obsideon armor.

Obsideon armor is intended to be hard to get, either through farming or saving up.

If we introduced Tokens, then attaining the armor would be no more difficult then completing one of the campaigns and buying end-game armor.

And this is exactly the same as the DoA and Razah thing. Because people are AGAIN complaining about having to actually grind for things and work for them.

Except Razah I agree about, and this I dont.

Im not saying the FoW isnt hard and we shouldnt recieve a reward for completing it.

But it should be in the form of a weapon or perhaps some form of lesser FoW armor which doesnt have Ecto or Shards in it.

But the whole idea of "buying armor with tokens" is intended for hero armor, not our armor.

If we start changing that now, then next we know, Anet will let us buy all armor with tokens.

Curse You · Dec 11, 2006, 10:58 AM // 10:58

I still fail to see how farming is an "exploit."

It is now very stupid to even try doing most 2 man farm builds, as they will take much loner than it is worth.

However, the trapping build for UW is far from an exploit. It's using an ability given to rangers to your advantage. It just so happens that if you put up EW and QZ 3 or more rangers can place a huge number of traps in one area.

Farming is far from an exploit, it's more of a challenge. The challenge? To come up with a build that can kill enemies with as few allies as possible, as well as properly executing the build.

So I don't really see why we need to change how you get Obsidian Armour (that's its real name), since it's intended as a gold sink and basically a "waste" of time.

lishi · Dec 11, 2006, 12:07 PM // 12:07

New service thread.

We gonna complete FoW and UW for you.

for only 200k you will have the fissure armor yay!

you want just a easy way to get a FoW

Gw is a game who reward skill over time played. its intended if you have more skill then another player you will be a better player.

unless you think a FoW possesor is a better player ...

Franco Power · Dec 11, 2006, 12:23 PM // 12:23

/not signed

FOW does not = skill ...

why did you even think it does ?

Antheus · Dec 11, 2006, 12:49 PM // 12:49

What is skill?

Farming UW 24/7 for one month is not skill. It's a foolproof, guaranteed way to earn it in sweat.

How about doing some trades, some chest runs, running some people through droks, playing the resource market, ...

Yes, it's about skill. But it takes time to learn skill. Just like you cannot go into GvG on first day of playing and expect to win. Yet, you can play GvG for score, and over time, you will get enough.

Now, consider this. If it were truly grind based, you'd need to grind for 450 hours. No less, possibly a bit more. And still, I can go into DoA, do a few foundry runs, and sell the gems for well over 100k each (only need 10-12 of them to cover new FoW set). I also open a few chests and pick up a gloom shield or two. And voila - skill earns me a new set of FoW. And such opportunities keep showing up.

Yes, skill > time.

Of course, this complaint isn't really about skill, it's about the fact that it takes effort. Completing quests is grind. There is no, and absolutely no way to get FoW, rather than grind the same quests over and over. That - is grind.

And just like everything, skill can, in absense of limited time, be replaced by time. In GvG, it cannot be. Once you're in the match, the opponent is coming after you in 7.5 seconds to mow you down. There, you cannot substitute the two.

So if you truly want skill over time, add a 1-per-year timed group quest, that will choose the 10 best of the best to obtain the FoW. That - is true gameplay skill.

This is just like old saying: A million monkeys hitting keys on a typewriter will, given enough time, write complete works of Shakespeare. Are they skilled? Was Shakespeare unskilled? Does literature reward time > skill? No. Shakespeare was skilled because he did all of that in a lifetime. Monkeys will take an eternity to do the same.

So yes, FoW is about skill. But not about button mashing skill, but about the skill to acomplish something in minimum ammount of time, with farming being the absolutely worst possible way. But at least there is a way for even "unskilled" to acomplish that. Limiting it to skill only would mean, that most wouldn't get it. Ever.

Just look at DoA. That place is about skill. Or is it? Many would like to make you believe it's not. Then why don't they complete it?

Franco Power · Dec 11, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Ok Sherlock, you forgot about one of the "skills" you mentioned

-eBay-

Jecht Scye · Dec 11, 2006, 01:01 PM // 13:01

FoW is for the people who really want to grind. It's not required to win the game and doesn't give any advantages either.

/notsigned

vdz · Dec 11, 2006, 01:13 PM // 13:13

FoW requires skill and loads of time (except for the ebayers), Its for those who spend allot of time trading, farming or for those who are really lucky with some drops. Giving people vouchers when completing UW or FoW (not much skill required to do that) is in one word ridiculous.

/100%notsigned

SpeedyKQ · Dec 11, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Obviously doing all the quests just once for a complete set would make it FAR too easy.

I agree with the OP's principle, though. There should be more reward for questing and less for farming. Pretty much all high-end content relased prior to Factions has this problem - Glint quests, SF, FoW, and UW are all full of quests that everyone ignores because the rewards are terrible.

A-net has done a much better job recently, but I don't hold out much hope for them changing the old stuff.

Navaros · Dec 11, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Ultimatum

/not signed

FOW does not = skill ...

why did you even think it does ?

I don't think it does - that's the problem.

This suggestion aims to fix that problem by giving an option for FoW to be acquired based on skill, as there should be based on Guild Wars' stated theme that all current ways of FoW acquisition needlessly violate.

Priest Of Sin · Dec 11, 2006, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Sounds like someone doesn't want to farm

FoW armor=Grind armor, nothing more. Yes, it looks very nice, but you can kill me as easily as any other player if you have the right skills. A person wearing a set of 1.5k scars will last just as long as I will.

I don't have a 5 hour streak to do something. I did, however, have lots of little segments of time in which I could farm.

No. You do not have FoW armor, you do not understand the grind it takes to get a set, let alone a piece. And then you must get to the forgemaster, which is hard enough. Anet will NOT change this, because FoW armor will become an "everybody gets one at the end" item, like the endgame greens. And we know how common THOSE are.

Yu Liang · Dec 11, 2006, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Like the idea of rewarding skill - don't like the execution. Like many before me have said, FoW armour is rewarding those with the dedication to acquire it. So, whereas I like the idea of rewarding skill - e.g. end game greens (which we have

) I don't like the idea of de-valuing the dedication needed for FoW.

/notsigned, sorry.

Thalion Galad · Dec 11, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

hi all
/signed

But give me back my ectos, shards and time that i spend on getting my fow armour...

Jyro X · Dec 11, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

I like the idea of people having to save up to buy it. But, I don't think the forge master quest is hard enough to justify it as being "elite" armor. The only thing that's hard about getting the FoW armor is getting the materials.

Hell, you can even make it to the Forge Master with 2 real players and a party full of Heroes now pretty easily (I've done it while farming shards/chests).

Personally, I don't think the FoW armor looks cool enough (on any profession) to justify spending so much time trying to acquire it, but that's just my opinion. I'd much rather just beat NF and get Primeval armor for all my characters before worrying about Obsidian.

KamikazeChicken · Dec 11, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

FoW armor is, in most cases, no longer the most attractive armor. I'll never understand why people still want that trash, but to each his own.

FYI: PvE needs 0 skill for regular content (I'll let people bitch about player skill and "elite" areas somewhere else), so you can throw out that quote. Anet has taken the normal way about doing PvE: give idiots something to grind away their life on. Let them be happy knowing they spent countless hours neglecting important things to grind FoW armor; stop rocking their boat!

Series · Dec 11, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Like others, the concept is ok, but it isn't very fair to people who have this armor... I don't and I doubt I will ever play enough PvE to get this armor... but for those who do, they deserve the money sink I suppose. MAYBE give your reward to unlock an all new type of armor that people can't get with gold and stuff? A special armor for people who beat a series of cross-continent quests which makes them travel throughout the entire world of Guild Wars and do all sorts of things. It would be almost like a mini-campaign, taking players from Tyria to Elona to Cantha to the Underworld to DoA to etc, spanning the ENTIRE GAME, with the reward of a special, unique, one of a kind elite armor. THAT would be cool IMO, and a DEFINITE reward of skill.

Crom The Pale · Dec 11, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

I spent a full year playing before I had saved enough cash/ectos/shards to buy my FOW armor.

It was not about farming, if you think it takes no skill to battle in FOW or UW and get the drops then youve got some extreme build id like to know about.

Now im not talking about 55ing or solo rits, I took 8 people down into each so many times I can't even guess a number. With your idea I'd have had the armor after our 4th or 5th trip.....

FOW armor was meant to be a LONG term goal for players. It was never intended to create farming. There will always be people that find and abuse exploites in the game, this would change nothing.

I could see a guild getting together and draging an afk player through the quests to get his voucher and charging him 100k.

So much for your skill based armor.....

Priest Of Sin · Dec 11, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10

*mutters to self*Why is it that people must constantly diss FoW armor because they don't have it... bah*/endmutter*

and to Kamikazechicken: Don't effing touch my boat :P

FoW and Underworld are not hard enough to warrant that kind of quest reward, as a few people have said. Sure, they were hard at the beginning, but now you can basically solo them, just as The Deep is now being soloed by countless W/E. Eventually, i'm sure that DoA will become easy, because someone will come up with a concrete method of beating it.

lyra_song · Dec 11, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Obsidian Armor is a vanity armor. it is a money sink. it is a LONG TERM goal.

It's not a reward, if anything, its a friggin curse.

/notsigned

Navaros · Dec 11, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

I spent a full year playing before I had saved enough cash/ectos/shards to buy my FOW armor.

It was not about farming, if you think it takes no skill to battle in FOW or UW and get the drops then youve got some extreme build id like to know about.

Now im not talking about 55ing or solo rits, I took 8 people down into each so many times I can't even guess a number. With your idea I'd have had the armor after our 4th or 5th trip.....

FOW armor was meant to be a LONG term goal for players. It was never intended to create farming. There will always be people that find and abuse exploites in the game, this would change nothing.

I could see a guild getting together and draging an afk player through the quests to get his voucher and charging him 100k.

So much for your skill based armor.....

That's pretty extreme don't ya think, having to play for a year to get the best set of armor (in terms of looks)?

Plus what about players who want Fissure armor for more than one character, they are supposed to play for 2 or 3 years just to get it? Also very extreme. Especially for a game that is not supposed to be about grind.

As far as Guilds dragging AFK players through the game to get the voucher, yes that would surely happen. That's not a reason enough to discredit the suggestion though. Because all aspects of the game can be abused in similiar ways, as you said. On the whole, it's still a good idea regardless of possible ways to abuse it. Ways to abuse the suggestion should not be a determining factor in implementing it or not, otherwise nothing would ever get implemented and there would be no game to play.